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LAST POST: May 20, 2013 10:49 AM by pmwisse

Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

RogerG
1 post

I appreciate there may be times when the GPS capabilities of the iPhone are pushed beyond their limits and it's not possible to accurately track your route and speed due to building/overhanging tree interference etc.  But every time I go for a run, even in nice open areas, MiCoach consistently tells me that my pace is effectively 'all over the place'.  This run below shows a perfect example of a nice easy 30 min run with 5 mins warm up in Blue, 20 mins in Green, and then a 5 min warm down - now I was running pretty consistently and there's no way that my pace was varying this much.

 

Question: Is there any way that the app can be enhanced to intelligently 'smooth out' these variances, to give a more accurate pace measurement?

Capture.JPG

Aug 16, 2010 1:18 PM
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  • Posted on Aug 16, 2010 1:18 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    Simino
    3 posts

    I don't have that problem so it is probably you and not the app...

    It seems to me that you defined your green zone as too easy for you since you end up running in the yellow zone so much when you are aiming for medium effort. Also, you might need a bigger span (60 sec?) in each zone so that you don't get out of them so much.

    Aug 19, 2010 8:18 AM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      Wessex
      7 posts

      I wouldn't say at all that it's Roger and not the app. My results always look far worse than Rogers, usually about half of mine are flatline - ie apparently I'm not moving at all, then for lots of my time in green (when I'm not flatlining) I'm apparently just about reaching blue, and usually towards the end of my run it decides that actually I've been in yellow for about two minutes but really I've been winding down in blue.

       

      I appreciate that some people don't have a problem at all with GPS working for them, but for those of us who do (and it seems to be LOTS of us), adidas really need to come up with an update to help sort it out.

      Aug 19, 2010 8:28 AM

      • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

        gseaton01
        1 post

        I have the same problems with the pace being consistent.  I run a route that is mostly open, and occassionally has some trees lining the route and overhead, but is mostly open with a clear view of the sky.  My mapped route on the map is always dead on, and very accurate, so I know the GPS is working fine and collecting data during my run.  However, my Pace Chart, is often all over the place, and very inconsistent.  The route is also relatively flat and I run at a very consistent pace.  When I first started using miCoach, the voice over was coming on every 15-30 seconds telling me to speed up, maintain speed, or slow down.  So much so, I really couldn't even listen to my music.  So no I just turn off the voice prompts during my runs, which defeats the whole purpose of having the pace coaching.  That was one of the main reasons I switched from RunKeeper to miCoach.  I really like the app, and every other aspect of it, but the pace inconsistency is a problem, and hopefully it's something they can fix in future versions.

         

        Pace Chart.jpg

        Sep 10, 2010 6:10 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    PeteandLeen
    9 posts

    One thing I've found which might be the cause (or at least a cause) for the fluctuations is that the micoach app doesn't read GPS  data nearly as frequently as some other apps. I like to take a very  winding running trail, and I notice that the GPS map shows me running  almost a straight line: I expect the micoach app reads GPS data every 30  seconds or so, whereas other apps (like Trails, for example) are either  configurable or read more often by default (like 5 seconds or less).

    What it boils down  to is I expect Roger (like me) is running a winding trail and though he  maintains a constant speed, the app draws straight lines between the  measuring points and thus reads an inaccurate distance and speed for  that stretch. Those who run almost a straight line (along streets in a city for example) would have much more accurate readings.

     

    What do you think? Anyone from Support reading this? Configurable GPS reading times would be a valuable feature for Roger and Me!

     

    thanks,

    Pete (and Leen)

    Dec 18, 2010 8:19 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    ianpogi
    26 posts

    Same problem here. It really is frustrating to see your graph like that when you know that you are running at a constant pace.

     

    I run with miCoach pacer and you will really see that the pacer has a smooth pace while the gps one is not.

     

    I'll attach a sample later coz I delete the mobile results after copying the mobile gps data to the pacer.

     

    BTW, I ussually run in a track oval with clear skies.

    Dec 19, 2010 4:34 AM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    Douglas
    11 posts

    Same here for the pace variances on my runs. However, my route is mostly straight lined. When compared to Runkeeper, it is less accurate. On a recent 5-mile run, miCoach Mobile reported 6 miles. That is extremely inaccurate!

    May 9, 2011 6:15 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    hillyermom
    1 post

    Same problem here. I've been using micoach for about a month and haven't had issues until today. I ran a new route that was flat and clear-sky view. When i look at the map of my run, it is all zig-zagged so it seems the gps was inaccurate. It said I ran 4.5 miles when it should have been around 3 and my paces were all way faster than what I was actually running. Hopefully it was just because of the new route I ran.

    Jul 7, 2011 2:43 PM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      littleb84
      1 post

      Snap....same problem going on with mine lately. Absolutely no problems until yesterday, maps were always dead on accurate as well as pace,but yesterday & todays run my route is all over the place (looks like i was constantly zig zaggin across the road or running down a road l,ittle while & then back up it), pace all over the place. I ran a dead on 4 mile route tonight & my micoach says 4.4 miles & yesterday i ran 4.7 & micoach said 5.2. I never had any low signal or signal lost.

       

      Why is this happening all of a sudden?????

      Jul 12, 2011 9:35 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    krzysiek04
    1 post

    Same problem here on Samsung Galaxy S (android). I guess they have to get more frequent gps readings and come up with some algorythm to compute the average

    Jul 19, 2011 10:20 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    Ewreck
    53 posts

    Like all of you i have the same problem. I have an iphone 4 and the problem seems bigger then when i had the iphone 3. In the the end it is not such a big problem but like others mentioned it looks weird with the spikes if you know you maintain a constant pace.

    Attachments:
    Jul 20, 2011 7:24 PM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      MatteoVicini
      5 posts

      Same exact problem here with Desire HD.

      I think in the map the violet points represent the gps readings and they seem to be quite accurate. The pace is a

      pain instead, really hugely irregular and unrealistic.

      Please give it a look because it's not really usable right now.

      BTW, I never had GPS problems out of miCoach. Endomondo even on "low power consumption mode" on the same track works fine, Google Nav works fine, Navigon works fine, RadarDroid works fine. It can't be a GPS problem!

      Jul 21, 2011 10:05 AM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    Kavehpd
    3 posts

    Exact same problem with iPhone 4, both iOS and miCoach up to date. In fact, I've been having this problem since the first version of miCoach. I've asked 4 other friends, all having the same issue.

     

    Endomondo and Nike can pinpoint my location perfectly. miCoach on the other hand is all over the place. Exact same track as endomondo or even Google Map, miCoach returns with 5~10 meter off location results. Wrong location means wrong pace and consequently wrong voice feedback. The only reason I'm interested in miCoach is the extensive training programmes and post training analyses. But the app as it is now is no good. I need accurate live feedback and results and I'm not getting any.

    Jul 25, 2011 3:34 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    mobilicous
    322 posts
    Answered by
    Answered by

    Thank you for taking the time to send in your feedback. While we hope to catch everything in testing before we release, that is not the always the case and hearing from you helps us to make this a better experience for all.

     

    There are differences in GPS accuracy for iPhone and android devices. In our testing, we have seen marked improvements when upgrading from iOS 3.x to the latest 4.x version. We have also seen improvements going between each platform (3G to 3GS to 4). There have been improvements in the way we are filtering GPS points as well so make sure the latest version of miCoach is installed. Also, carrying the phone in your hand or using an armband or waist pack helps minimize poor GPS.

     

    For android, the biggest suggestion is to make sure WiFi is turned off as this effects the GPS accuracy within the current version of our app. We have also received reports of poor GPS performance on certain HTC models and are looking into to this.

     

    In the future, if you could include the phone model, version of the OS and version of miCoach, that would be helpful in pinpointing which configurations you are running with so we can try to replicate what you are seeing.

    Jul 26, 2011 8:11 PM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      Kavehpd
      3 posts

      Thanks for the reply, Jon.

       

      As mentioned in my first post, iPhone 4, iOS 4.3.5 (*was 4.3.3 when initially posted here), miCoach 1.0.15. Have had the problem since the very first build of your app and since iOS 4.1.

       

      Zero GPS related issues with other location apps such as Maps, endomondo, Nike+, or even tom tom without its cradle.endomondo doesn't have voice training and well, I've never been a huge Nike fan.

       

      Exact same condition, exact same running track and miCoach fails to pinpoint my location as accurately as other apps. Fluctuations make it impossible to maintain pace and virtually renders the voice training function useless. I can use it as a tracking app, of course. But then again, other apps do it much better.

      Jul 26, 2011 8:48 PM

      • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

        mobilicous
        322 posts
        Answered by
        Answered by

        Kavehpd wrote:

         

        Thanks for the reply, Jon.

         

        As mentioned in my first post, iPhone 4, iOS 4.3.5 (*was 4.3.3 when initially posted here), miCoach 1.0.15. Have had the problem since the very first build of your app and since iOS 4.1.

         

        Zero GPS related issues with other location apps such as Maps, endomondo, Nike+, or even tom tom without its cradle.endomondo doesn't have voice training and well, I've never been a huge Nike fan.

         

        Exact same condition, exact same running track and miCoach fails to pinpoint my location as accurately as other apps. Fluctuations make it impossible to maintain pace and virtually renders the voice training function useless. I can use it as a tracking app, of course. But then again, other apps do it much better.

        Hi Kavehpd,

         

        Accurate GPS = great coaching experience.

         

        We will continue to investigate and improve our pace and distance calculations as this is a cornerstone that all other features are built on top of. I am sorry you are not experiencing the level of quality the adidas brand is known for and we will strive to earn your support moving forward.

        Jul 26, 2011 9:25 PM

        • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

          AlxBeLu
          1 post

          From my observations, it seems that there are some basic issues with the speed/pacing logic in the miCoach app.

           

          To me it seems that the app is recording speed/pace as a separate process, probably by polling the gps twice within a specific time interval, and when it doesn't get a fix (for at least one of the requests) it records your speed as 0, while positions for your track will/might still get intermittent positions.

           

          This would explain why I have several charts where I run some 40-50 meters with a, according to miCoach, speed of 0km/h, while the recorded time enables me to calculate my speed to, for example, somewhere around 8km/h.

           

          I kind of get why you would do this in a separate process, adidas probably wanted the speed to be as accurate and instant as possible, while recording your route can be set to a slightly lower polling interval, conserving space and probably some power/cpu.

           

          The issue is really how this has been implemented, with no fallbacks for lost/intermittent gps reception.

           

          So, here's my suggestions:

          - Fallback on track position/keep polling until a new position has been established before establishing current speed.

          - Do not allow positions with low accuracy (for example worse than 20m)

          - If reception is bad, calculate speed over slightly longer periods/more positions, to get a better average. This avoids incorrect "speed up/slow down" spam.

           

          And to really spice things up; you could use the accelerometer (if available) to determine wether the runner is standing still or not, if it is giving highly fluctuating readings, chances are that the runner is still on the move! (it could probably be used in combination with the gps to get seriously accurate speed readings as well, although I imagine that would require much more complex logic and a lot more testing)

           

           

          edit: actually, on second thought, instantaneous speed readings really aren't very useful for coaching/running, when running I bet most people actually try to keep a consistent speed if that is the goal and thus won't spontaneously fluctuate between 0-15km/h. What you really want is your current trend and average speed over the last seconds (10?), getting to hear that you should speed up because you slowed down for some obstacle isn't really useful unless you fail to regain your pace.

          Jul 29, 2011 2:27 PM

        • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

          Love2befit
          8 posts

          Hello,

           

          I am also a new user of MiCoach. When I have to do these interval trainings, the GPS signal in the red zone is not correct. It reaches the red zone but doesn't go back to the Blue zone als fast as possible. I am getting scores of 78% and I know I am really training in the Blue zone. I wish Adidas can do something about this. A nice app!

          Dec 23, 2012 5:43 PM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      Feliks
      1 post

      It's usually not quite this bad, in terms of being apparently stopped, but it is an ongoing problem.

       

      HTC Aria

      Android 2.3.3

      CyanogenMod 7.0.3

      MiCoach version 1.2.6962

       

      http://www.adidas.com/com/micoach/WorkoutImage.dwi?WID=0f1b083d-152e-495c-a49b-153d84591adf

      Aug 3, 2011 3:17 AM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    MatteoVicini
    5 posts

    Just to help the developers discovering what's the matter, I am using:

    Phone: Desire HD

    Brand: HTC

    Android: 2.3.3

    miCoach: 1.2.6962

     

    Here you are a screenshot of a training having large unexpected pace variances.

     

    Immagine.jpg

    I want to underline I am not hiding the sky to the phone's GPS antenna in a way to expect those variances. I am simply using a sort of belt and the container of the phone is open on a side and is made of cotton. I have just bought a miCoach armband online so I'll be able to report how it works with it instead.

    Aug 3, 2011 8:29 AM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    Sraciek
    1 post

    I have the same problem with pace.

    My phone is HTC Wildfire

    Android 2.2.1

    miChoach 1.2.6962   

     

    Is there any fix by now?

    Aug 15, 2011 10:18 AM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    zeenes
    1 post

    I'm having the same issues. I recently updated my iPhone 4 software in an effort to solve this and I have the latest version of miCoach. I'm running on city streets or sidewalks with no overhead power lines and wearing the phone in an armband, away from any metal. Today the sky was perfectly clear, but my pace and distance were way off yet again. I went 2 miles and it thought I did 3.5. I can be walking and it will tell me to slow down from my 4-minute-mile pace. Really? I love, love, love the coaching aspect of this app, but it's so frustrating to run at a constant pace and have the coaching constantly tell me to slow down or speed up. The data isn't usable because it's so innacurate.

    Aug 17, 2011 3:41 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    MatteoVicini
    5 posts

    Hi to all.

    I see the Android app has been updated two times since my last post, I don't know the release notes because they were not published on the market?

    In the meantime I started using the miCoach armband. I figured out many problems can be solved changing the "radio" software of my phone. I tried various radio software (you can find them on http://forum.xda-developers.com/ on the section regarding your phone) and I got to understand everyone has its own peculiarity. For example the latest (untested) one that came out gives problems on the second use of the GPS: you need to clear AGPS data with a tool to make it work or it won't fix for ages. But since I am using a custom ROM I'm just using the recommended radio for it and it works good. Just give a look at the "radio thread" and find the right one for you testing it on the field.

    This is just to give an update, the situation is now much better, I rarely hear wrong coach indications (but I still hear some that are completely wrong like "red zone" when simply walking, and it's not the zone that is wrong!!!) and it seems the app is now much more accurate to tell when there are GPS signal loss (quite rare) and when it is found again. That's very useful because that way you 1. don't hear wrong instructions and 2. you know that going straight is the better choice to have the most accurate log of the workout because as you know when the signal is lost the app traces a straight line from the last known location to the newest fix if finds and does mediate data.

     

    I still think the application could do some really important progresses using the GPS data in the right way. I mean, I know GPS data given by the chipset do have the indication of the "precision", so why not use it and decide, for example, not to give indications about going slower or faster if the accuracy is too poor? I mean, when you can't be +/- sure the zone IS NOT the right one, avoid giving indications that could be too imprecise! And / or try to completely avoid considering poor fixes perhaps would be a good point. Could something similar be done? How does the app act on this?

    Aug 23, 2011 8:24 AM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      delacheol
      1 post

      Same problem here. iPhone 3GS running OS 4.2.1.

       

      There are some trees around the neighborhood. Other than that, low buildings, fairly flat terrain and I run uncomplicated routes. Bottom line is runkeeper has no problem keep track of routes and pace in my neighborhood and in Central Park in Manhattan, which has a lot more trees than my neighborhood where I'm experiencing pace tracking issues with micoach.

       

      I switched from runkeeper because runkeeper charges $20 to install training programs, which are free on micoach. However, the training relies on pace guidance and the pace tracking is wrong or has so much lag that it's unreliable. So, not to sound like an ingrate complaining about a free app, but adidas isn't a non-profit: if I enjoyment of running is enhanced by the app, I buy more shoes and running shorts, etc. I run in adidas gear head-to-toe already and really just want the app to be functional and useful so that I can keep using it and improve my runs.

       

      Users have been complaining about the same issue for well over a year. If adidas can't fix the problem, maybe it should acquire a company that has the proven technology. Google bought Android. Apple bought Siri. The result might be better than what each can achieve on their own. If millions of people post "Check out the run I did with adidas micoach." on social networks everyday, that's gotta be a better investment than, say, a super bowl ad.

      Oct 15, 2011 12:28 AM

      • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

        techi80
        2 posts

        Hi Guys,

         

        I have been tested a few applications on Android: Endomondo, Runkeeper , SportsTrackLive etc...

        Most of them have the same problem , they compute instantaneous pace .

         

        Most of people are not aware of GPS accuracy which is about 20 metres. So if you move along the path with the speed 10km/h ( pace 6 min/km ) you cannot  expect accurate results from application like miCoach. There must be variations in pace because you move to slowly 10 km/h which is 2.5 m/s . Event if you are not moving computed GPS postions will be drawing  a curve , which does not have any sense.

         

        The only solution for miCoach is to compute average pace for a given distance, period of time . There is one such application  which computes pace - as an average pace for last minute . Giving a runner an average pace for last minute of running is a really good  solution .  I usually run on 1 km path in the forest and the computed pace is exacatly the same as my stop watch shows for 250 metres.

         

        miCoach developers shoudl put a new featurer into application - a pace which is computed as an average pace for a given distance, given period of time .

         

         

        So Guys please don't complain , you cannot do anything about american GPS .

        In a few years when European Galileo system starts working ( planned accuracy for civilians  4 metres ) instantenous pace will not have so many variances.

        Oct 21, 2011 9:33 PM

        • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

          techi80
          2 posts

          If you want see that 1 minite period of time is good enough for computing average pace .

          Please play with analysis bounds on a running chart. Select any area with the width 1 minute , computed average pace is in 99% is  your real pace that you were running.

           

           

          Regards,

           

          I hope miCoach developers are now implementing this feature !

          Oct 21, 2011 9:41 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    JonMep
    2 posts

    This is still an issue in the latest iPhone version of the micoach app. I have made comparisons with similar apps (Runmeter and Runkeeper) and found that their audio coaching based on pace is similarly poor. I suspect that GPS on phones is currently only really accurate enough for runs on straight roads, in the middle of nowhere, on a sunny day.

     

    What the other apps offer, and what micoach sorely lacks, is a way to give you pace information based on an average over some user-configurable time/distance split (as another poster said above) so you can experiment and find a split that works for where you run. These apps are good enough if the pace is averaged over 1km say, including the micoach app judging by the complete run data.

     

    I really like other features of micoach though - the training plan/schedule features are particularly well implemented I think. If the pace info could be a bit more configurable micoach would be my go to running app.

     

    Fingers crossed.

    Dec 15, 2011 12:16 AM

    • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

      rugby13
      721 posts
      Answered by
      Answered by

      Hi Jon,

       

      Thanks for the post.

       

      I'm not 100% what you are asking for, as I don't know which post above you are referring to.

       

      You can play around with some of the updates in the iPhone so you receive information every kilometer or 0.25 of a kilometer there after and this can also be set to give updates after a certain time has elapsed. You can change this on the App in Settings>Personal Settings.

       

      I will check out for you if the Pace update is the current Pace at that point, the average to that point or the average since the last update.

       

      After you have finished the run and synced the data and go to Track>Workout History on the App and select the workout and charts then you can see the splits for each kilometer.

       

      I'll get back to you with the info about the updates.

       

      Cheers,

       

      Rugby13

      Dec 19, 2011 1:59 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    AndreR
    1 post

    I've been experiencing similar problems. As far I can read, it's not related to the phone model, or the OS. I suggest the problem is "in the core" of miCoach.

     

    I always "lose" the first 30 seconds of my run. It reports as I've run 100m in 30s at 0km/h. Also, GPS lag is visible (see screenshot). I know I don't reach my red zone from green in a second, but I'm pretty sure I go down to blue in a fraction of one. I know the app calculates an average, but it's just too slow. I mean, 20secs of a minute sprint it's just too much. I really would like to have an option to increase this accuracy and GPS sampling rate.

    micoach.jpg

     

    Also, GPS signal loss is frequent:

    mic2.png

     

     

    I mean, reading past posts/threads, I see this problem is older than year. And no solution/update about it was given until now...

    Jan 30, 2012 11:17 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    rsassoon
    1 post

    It seems after almost 2 years that the problems continue.. I wanted to start training for a halv marathon in september and micoach seemed good for that purpose, but after going just for a walk to try out the app I got really disappointed by noticing many 0 km/h points in my graph. That makes the app and the training program quite useless since the pace will be wrong quite often...

     

    I'm using an HTC Desire with Android 2.29.405.5, with micoach 2.0.8823

     

    micoach.jpg

    Apr 24, 2012 10:33 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    DougCFL
    1 post

    Yup. the gps still sucks in mi coach mobile.  The Nike+ folks finally got the gps right, but they don't support workouts on the device (just on their website).  I doubt either Adidas or Nike are listening as neither of them can get their app set for folks to really train with it.  Anyone wanna write a mobile app for runners?  I just need custom workouts and good gps, no facebook or web site needed.  I'll pay for a good one.  Or we can all go to Garmin and get a watch.  They got it right.

    Apr 25, 2012 3:12 PM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    Stuchy
    1 post

    Ive just used the micoach for the first time and aside from finding that the pace drops to zero (supposedly when GPS is lost), the pace/speed recording is totally wrong. The GPS must be working properly because the total distance is about right and the time is correct (so the average pace for the whole run is right)......but........... the live pace is at least double of what it should be. According to this, im running world record pace, between 20 and 32km/hr!!! I know that for the last couple of kms I would have been running at about 4:20min/km, so double of what micoach says (about 2min/km). What is going on?

    Jul 26, 2012 6:50 AM

  • Re: Large pace variances from GPS with MiCoach app

    pmwisse
    1 post

    I had this problem too. I followed the advice to switch off Wi-Fi and this helps a lot! Nexus S with Cyanogenmod 10.1.

    May 20, 2013 10:49 AM
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